Toxic Truth with Dr. Joe Nieusma, Senior Toxicologist

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TalkToMeGuy: With that, our guest today has spent nearly four decades figuring out what's making us sick. More importantly, what we can do about it. Dr. Joe Newsma is a senior toxicologist with 37 years of experience who built his career in the trenches of pharmaceutical, biotech and medical device companies, focusing on keeping both employees and patients safe. A leading expert in toxicology, Dr. Joe Newsma specializes in evaluating exposure to drugs, chemicals, biological agents and environmental toxins.

Beyond his corporate consulting work, he partners with private clients through Dr. Joe for Hope.com, helping individuals reduce or eliminate unnecessary medications, often resulting in significant improvements in overall health and quality of life. Dr. Newsma isn't just looking at pills and bottles either. His work has expanded into some pretty eye-opening areas, like helping families deal with wildfire smoke damage in their homes, tackling complex water purification challenges, and developing real, science-based strategies to help our bodies not just survive, but actually thrive in our increasingly toxic world. Dr. Newsma's approach is that he understands something many of us are just waking up to.

We're living in a world our bodies weren't designed for, and we need practical strategies to deal with everything from the air we breathe to the chemicals in our everyday products. Welcome, Dr. Joe.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: Thank you for having me. It's great to be on your show, and hopefully we can touch on some things that your listeners invite me back because they want to dive deeper in whatever we end up talking about today.

TalkToMeGuy: This is a dive deep audience. They love to dive deep. It's great. I'd like to start by asking, how or why toxicology is a field of study? What lit up for you about toxins?

Dr. Joe Nieusma: Well, it all goes back to undergraduate school, and I was the typical biology, chemistry major minor with an emphasis on pre-med. When I applied to eight medical schools and two graduate programs, I got into two graduate programs. At the time, my last couple years in undergraduate school, I was working as a student co-op for Dow Chemical. I was working in around and for a bunch of PhD toxicologists that were doing registration studies for pesticides and herbicides for Dow Chemical. They were the ones that said, well, apply to a couple graduate programs in case you don't get into those medical schools, because I was still a bright-eyed, just young, immortal, I can do anything I think I can do in the world kid. They said, well, just apply to a couple graduate schools just in case it doesn't go as expected. I ended up picking one of those graduate programs out where my brother lived in Colorado and got into learning the toxicology and really never looked back. After graduate school, usually the course of action is you go and you do a postdoc, which is dentured serbitude, where you don't make any money and you take a very highly trained scientist.

They do cheap work for primary investigators for another three years or so. I skipped that part and got a job right in the pharmaceutical industry after I finished graduate school and learned the occupational side of toxicology. So toxicology was actually an accident.

It was a road not taken or not even considered. And the more I learned about it, the more versatile it really becomes in that with an education in toxicology, it's really an amalgam of all the other sciences. You need to have a great understanding of everything, you know, physiology, pathophysiology, anatomy, immunology, all of it.

You need to have good understanding. And then when you have that command of the rest of the sciences, toxicology, the study of xenobiotics, which is a fancy science word for stuff that's in your body that shouldn't be in your body. And it's how those compounds affect the body. And the depth and width and breadth of toxicology is endless. There's all kinds of specialties. And what I've done in my 37 years in toxicology is I have focused on human exposures, whether that's pharmaceutical agents where the chemicals designed to have an effect on the body, or chemical agents like or other just common toxins of just living in this world.

You know, that's the stuff in your air and your water and your food and in your environment. So I've made a living out of the drug industry and the medical device industry. And, you know, having worked in the pharma industry 27 years, I'm one of the first ones to stand up and say drugs aren't the answer. So that's how I got into toxicology. And that's how I've steered my way.

And, you know, you go back and you look at the decisions made at different points and it's hard to think about what you would have done if you had taken a left instead of a right. But here I am 37 years later and I have a thriving practice in helping people stay or get well and helping people get from sick to back to healthy. And, you know, you mentioned the Dr. Joe for hope. You know, there's a lot of the population that, you know, I call it polypharmacy. They wake up one day and find themselves on a dozen drugs because they have several specialists.

They don't talk to each other. Everybody prescribes you one, two or three drugs. And now you got your morning pills, your afternoon pills, your pills because these pills make you feel bad and these pills make you feel better from those pills that make you feel bad.

It's just, it's a mess. And more times than not, a lot of those types of people can take some very practical solutions that I offer back to their physicians and challenge their physicians as to why they're on these drug products. So, you know, that's actually very satisfying part of what I do that. And the other stuff you mentioned, the fire stuff is just brand new. I mean, that's brand new in the last three years. And what I'm doing there is changing the way the insurance industry thinks about fire and smoke damage. And I'm doing that with case studies and publications and really creating hard things for the insurance industries to learn about and making it impossible or very, very difficult to ignore those. And that's just determining what the ultimate toxins are in those environments. So that's how I've gotten where I've gotten.

TalkToMeGuy: I wasn't going to talk about this until later, but because you mentioned, you said the Groucho Marx word of fire. I live less than two miles from where the Coffee Park fire was in Santa Rosa, California, where over 1400 homes were burned in 2017. And a total amount of 4,600 homes and structures were lost in this part of Northern California from the Napa area to the Calistoga area to then West Coast side. The fire had to jump a six lane freeway to get onto this side of Santa Rosa.

And so I lived through the fires when I was living in Sonoma, the town of Sonoma, and I was evacuated four times. And so one of the things that's exciting to me is the, well, this is a two part statement and there's a question in here is that one of the things that excited me about as I was reading about you and studying listening, reading, doing the thing I do, that you in the pharmaceutical industry, you were not only looking at the drugs, but you were there to really help protect the people who are compounding the agents and looking at their long term health effects. Yes, that's correct. So that's really deep and in depth and that's just the kind of saying, because you're looking at people who are, I'll use this term intentionally, chronically exposed, not just kind of but like on a data basis, they're not just not just taking a choice to take the second pill to counteract the first pill. They're in it every day in the powders and the residue in the everything. So you really studied. Go ahead.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: And they're getting in different manners. Like if you're ultimately making a tablet or a capsule that's swallowed, it starts as a powder that can be inhaled.

TalkToMeGuy: Right. And or come in contact with your skin.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: Yeah, absolutely. So it's and it's basically it's a career spent on setting up arguments of causation. You know, as the as a as working in employee safety. Yeah, I set a lot of occupational exposure limits.

That's OEL. And that's the amount of a drug product that somebody who's working with it can be exposed to before there's any increased risk of adverse effects. And the counterpart to that is an ADE or acceptable daily exposure. And that is the amount of drug a that can be found in drug B before it's the problem for the end user.

Think about that. Yeah, you know, you're you're going to the store to buy one product and it could have that one plus another. If things get out of whack in the manufacturing plant. But yeah, it's it's always been an employee safety slant.

And it's always been a personal safety slant. And I like to think I come up with new ways to solve old problems. And it's it's where you couple your toxicology with industrial hygiene. You know, you got to have the analytical data so that you know what the problem is where the problem is. And then you block pathways of exposure, you know, pathways of exposure could be by breeding it in by ingesting it, whether it's intentional or accidental, it could be but through skin absorption. And that could be in the pharmaceutical industry that could be in the chemical industry that could be in the do I want to move back into my house after it got smoked out but not completely burned down industry. It's still human exposure to things that you shouldn't be exposed to.

And the long terms effects of chronic exposure. It's exactly the same thing. It's just a different industry, whether it's pharma or fire or chemical. It's, yeah, it's very astute of you to point that out.

TalkToMeGuy: And as I was living through the fires, I was never burned out but I was evacuated because of possible threats. And as I was driving through the town of Sonoma, I remember watching the converted Boeing 747, which is quite a large airplane, fly like a Piper Cub, in the sense of amazing pilots probably war veterans flying these planes dumping fire retardant. And the mixed thing that I had in my mind about what exactly as I'm watching them save places but I'm still thinking what's in that bright orange scary stuff they're dumping like hundreds of zillions of tons of this. I mean, it's like out of the out of the butt of a Boeing 747 as it's banking hard. Just thinking, what is that?

Dr. Joe Nieusma: Yeah, that's that's the it's a it's a topic of a separate show. It's fiery targets. Yeah, you know, you've heard of forever chemicals and you've heard of PF, PFAS. It's it's an eclectic mix of all of those types of wonderful things that create a barrier that makes it difficult, more difficult to burn stuff. But there's always a price and it's like our chemicals tagline from the 70s and 80s chemicals for a better living. And the the actual long pull in the tent is asking the question, is it really better?

TalkToMeGuy: Yeah, I still remember to this day and this is almost 100 years ago, not really, but close coming out of the Monsanto ride at Disney World in LA. And at the very end, now let's just look at that for a moment, the Monsanto ride at Disneyland that and I'm not on drugs. That's a real thing. It was and coming out of that ride at the very end where where I think that the tagline was without chemicals life itself would not be possible.

And that is always that has stuck in my head since I was a child, like, I don't know. And maybe that's what made me I'm not a toxicologist, but I sure have spent a long time looking at stuff in the environment and the potential effect it can have on humans and animals. Oftentimes more so animals. Yes.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: You know, I've been told that the the the actual limit on the design of the human body is about 125 years to live. And it's it's in the Bible that that's where that comes from. I've been told and that the only thing that makes a difference is our life choices in our environmental exposures.

And so what's costing us the last 50 years? Yeah, yeah. I mean, and the thing about toxic exposure or toxicology, I guess, I mean, it's one of the mantras of toxicology is the dose makes the poison. And to explain that means that even things that are exquisitely toxic, if it's a small enough exposure can be relatively innate and things that are thought to be completely safe, if you're exposed at a high enough concentration or dose, then they can be very toxic. And for instance, cyanide, everybody's afraid of cyanide, it's a respiratory toxin and it's, it will kill you.

But at the right concentration, it's used very safely and very effectively in the gold mining industry. And then we counter that with water, the solvent of life and you know without water you got about four days before you're really in danger of checking off at this rock. But if you think about it, the drug of abuse known as ecstasy, its mechanism of action in toxicity and some people is extreme thirst. And these people that are high on ecstasy will literally drink themselves to death. It dilutes their electrolytes and messes up their cell cell communications until they're incompatible with life. So there you have a couple examples of something that's oh my gosh scary chemical, used perfectly safely.

And what we need to live every day can also actually kill you. So toxicology, the dose makes the poison is one of the mantras, you know, and there's also the whole concept of dose response curve. And that's how each individual person or animal interacts, you know, how strong is the response. And humans are actually individual because everybody's different. And it's why some people need one aspirin and some people need two or three aspirin to take care of their headache.

It's why some people need two doses of anesthesia before the dentist can start drilling on their teeth. It's all based on the individual makeup of how the individual body deals with that individual exposure. The most important word in the whole thing being individual because you can't predict how everybody's going to respond to these different chemical exposures. So the dose makes the poison.

TalkToMeGuy: And how does the world of toxicology, I don't think the health world thinks about this. And when I say health world, I would mean Western medicine. They don't seem to consider this is so not where I was planning on going. I just have to say that to the audience, but it's going to happen.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: What about the cocktail? You're the boss.

TalkToMeGuy: Yeah, thank you. What about the car? What I would call the cocktail effect. Okay, so they give you a medication. Okay, great. You're on a medication. Then down the road because this has happened to me, they give you a medication and then they're like, oh, you're having that reaction to that medication. We better give you this medication. Oh, well now you better be taking this other medication because you're taking that medication and pretty soon you're on a cocktail of medications. The side effect management. That's very nicely put. That's why you get the big bucks. And is there is there somebody such as yourself studying that?

Dr. Joe Nieusma: Oh, yeah, every day. That's that's why the pharmacist is really the unsung hero in healthcare team. Physicians have a semester of pharmacology. They don't understand drug mechanism of action or the best way to attack a problem with the best candidate. And I describe it as the physicians are only as smart as the last drug rep that they saw across.

Yeah. And the real unsung hero is the pharmacist and the pharmacist is the one that deals with, let's say your little guy or little old lady going into to fill their prescriptions. And it's the pharmacist that's going to check that. Oh my gosh, this new prescription that the doctor brilliant put you on is going to react with one that your other doctor had you on for three years and we can't do this because you know you won't make it to dinner. So it's that type of a situation that the pharmacist is tasked with catching in this world of polypharmacy. And unfortunately in the world of retail pharmacy, I mean they got one pharmacist and it's their run ragged and they just they don't have the individual time to spend with people to catch a lot of this stuff and it's tragic. And that won't change until somebody actually dies because you know the the Walgreens and CVS is of the world or more more concerned about the bottom line than about anybody's individual health and health and well be. And you know the pharmaceutical industry isn't interested in curing anything.

They're interested in long term customers. If you really think about it, and all these drug programs or the drug advertisements on TV. You know what happens is the drug industry finds a drug that does something changes physiology has an effect. And then they create a disease to market that drug for it.

It's just ridiculous and it's it's been pervasive since the last probably 15 years. Western medicine really took a switch in ideology after World War two when they became dependent on prescription writing instead of critical thinking and preventive like including nutrition, including exercise and including. Just what you get out here diet and it nowadays it's instant gratification and can I take a pill for whatever condition is going on and you know when you wake up a 57 year old fat guy. There's not a pill that's going to change you back here 20 year old lean mean fighting machine self within a month.

It's just not going to happen. And the diet industry will lead you to believe that not only is there a miracle cure but there's six of them and you only have to listen to their stupid videos online for an hour and a half before you get this all natural recipe that you'll try for a month and a half and pay all kinds of money. And you'll still be just as fat because you haven't stopped shoving stuff down the hole in your face and you haven't moved what you've already packed onto your body for the last 57 years. So the hard truth is you got to move it if you want to lose it and you got to watch what you jam in the hole. It's that simple.

TalkToMeGuy: Well I would add to that. I was a working chef for 20 years. So I was the guy making the food to stuff in the hole. But I was making you know regionally farmed you know I made the most perfect food I could in all the restaurants meaning regionally farmed grass fed grass finished you know all the correct words.

No toxins. However it was amazing to me how I would have people come in the restaurants and after a while if you get a reputation people try to follow you from restaurant to restaurant. And I would watch these I'll say guys is a generic term would come in and they'd have that exact same like I can't get a big barrel chested you know the big working guys. That kind of texture. And you know they would come in and they'd like have a Big Mac before they'd come to eat. Or they just like they had no there was no filter in their mind. Of like yes maybe this is I almost said a bad word.

Not good. That I'm putting this you know off the shelf from McDonald's turnover in my face before I walk in an hour before I'm going to like have real food. There was no we're just not connected to that we're so inundated with the fast talking commercials of my farm my favorite commercials. And again a bad word are the pharmaceutical commercials because they always have that attorney. They have that fast talking attorney at the end always is like that that may cause you to crap your pants you know blah blah blah blah.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: You know it's funny that they're reading right straight off the package insert and people can get that any drug they have they can go online and Google the drug and say package insert and it will come up. And they can read at their own pace.

They don't have to listen to super slick talking fast attorney. Yeah. And I tell you you read nine out of ten of those package inserts and the first question is why would I ever swallow this. Yeah. Yeah. But you know back to the nutrition thing. My nutrition advice as a toxicologist because you know everything in moderation is another good mantra of toxicology. But I heard the best nutrition advice I think probably about 10 or 15 years ago when I was at a deposition for an exposure case in Chicago and the attorney who had hired me. You know he just said you know I've lived for a lot of years on the mantra of eat half and mostly plants and you'll be OK. That's very ultimately simple. And the more you think about it. It's sound eat half and mostly plants and you'll be OK.

TalkToMeGuy: It's hard to sell a diet book on that though. You can't. Yeah.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: It's hard to be a chef like that too. I mean my wife and I try when we go out when we order if we aren't sharing a plate. Yeah. We try to order it and get a box right away. Yeah. Because I mean the restaurant portions these days are super sized just like most of the population. Yeah. Yeah.

TalkToMeGuy: So we're going to we're going to shift every so slightly but it's in the same same pool. That's for sure. We haven't moved pools yet.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: Is well I can tie them all together whenever you want.

TalkToMeGuy: I know I know you can. That's what I love about this. In your so far thirty seven years. What's the biggest shift you've witnessed in terms of what's making people sick today versus 30 years ago.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: Food. It's it's just the food today is horrendous. The the processing. There is literal toxins in the diet. And if you shop the middle of the supermarket you're doomed. It's it's the dies. It's the preservatives. And it's the just the chemicals that are found in today's food.

That plus the fact that most of the soil that it's grown in is completely depleted of nutrients and it the food that was grown in the 40s 50s and 60s is far superior to the food that's grown today because it's devoid of nutrients and so I would have to say if you pick one thing it's the food and in today's government love them or hate them whatever side of the fence you fall on the fact that they are targeting those dies and other additives to get removed from food. It's a good thing. And what about.

TalkToMeGuy: I have an attitude about this so I'll say it this way. What about the dreaded glyphosate. Since it's it's it's ever pervasive. I did. I've done a number of shows with Stephanie Seneff who wrote the book toxic legacy on glyphosate. And she she backed it all the last time I talked to her. She backed it all the way down to the tricky thing about biofuels and a biofuel means that you take regular gasoline and you add some kind of ethanol to it or methanol usually ethanol and that ethanol can be derived from a plant source more than likely. Now the plant source let's say it's corn. Let's say it's GMO corn spread with glyphosate its entire life moments before it's harvested. Then you make a biofuel out of that and the glyphosate still in there and then you put that in your car and you drive around and so what we're getting is aerosolized glyphosate out of automobiles.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: That's absolutely 100% correct. So thank you. You're adding to the pathways of exposure to that actual chemical you're not only ingesting it but now you're inhaling it. There's a there I've read somewhere and I don't remember the source or if it's credible that they've actually found glyphosate when they buy a box of Cheerios at a grocery store grind it up and look for it they find it in that product.

Yeah. So there's an entire subsection of toxicology is called hormesis and it deals with lower than therapeutic levels of exposure. So like you have a chemical that you're exposed to just a little bit of what does that do what is the ramifications of that and unfortunately the jury is still out on it. They're still studying the long term effects of low dose exposure and it's it actually came about as a result of pharmaceuticals in the environment. So everybody takes all these drug products your blood pressure medicines your birth control hormones and all this stuff they take them they pee them out they go to the publicly owned treatment works that aren't designed to remove pharmaceutical chemicals from the water. So it just gets diluted and gets diluted and gets diluted you can take a sample from almost any River Lake pond or ocean anywhere in the world and you will find some pharmaceutical chemical level in that. Part of that is because analytical technique has gotten so good that you can find just a trace of this stuff in whatever the media actually is. But the fact of the matter is you find it so it's there you know the exposure is happening.

What's the results. And it's not just a one thing and that's the additive effect is what really creates the top toxic soup of exposure that we're living in because you've got stuff in the water you got stuff in the air you got stuff in your food you got stuff in your house. You know you buy a brand new carpeting you got stuff emitting out of that you buy a brand new house you got paint orders you got the adhesive odors you got compressed wood furniture odors and all of this stuff you know you live in an urban area. You got air pollution and and all of these different things come into play creating the soup of toxic exposure. The common denominator Richard the common denominator that links all of this stuff is that most of the mechanisms operate through oxidative stress and chronic inflammation. They cause these reactive oxygen species above and beyond what's normal for the body because just breeding creates these things and then unchecked those reactive oxygen species will lead to chronic inflammation and I'm sure you've talked about that on your show before ad nauseam about the dangers of chronic inflammation. So let's simplify the human body it's made up of trillions of cells let's just call the body one cell just one cell and that one cell has a bucket of cellular defense. nd As soon as that bucket gets depleted, then those oxidative stress, inflammation, those oxygen radicals, they start to hit critical macromilk.

It could be cell membranes, it could be enzymes, it could be receptors, it could be RNA, it could be DNA, it could be the mitochondrial membrane where energy is produced. You just think about these oxygen radicals as little darts, and they're shooting off from where they're being created, and they're poking holes in everything. If you get enough holes, poke in whatever it is that you're jabbing, it's going to become incompatible with life. The name of the game is to make sure you always keep your defense mechanisms up, your antioxidants, and your anti-inflammatories, so that those things that occur daily and then get worse if we're in a poor environment that has lots of toxicities, don't deplete those cellular mechanisms of defense. How do you keep those cellular mechanisms of defense in a manner that is compatible with life?

It's actually very simple. You have a good diet. You stay hydrated. You stay active, and you make sure you get enough rest.

Those four things, and your bucket of defenses is going to stay in pretty good shape. They say most diets are very, very poor. I think I read over 90 to 95% of the people walk around chronically dehydrated. Today's typical person is very, very sedentary. When was the last time most people got eight hours of sleep and a nice rest? It is a total assault on the well-being of the human body, where we live, what we breathe, what we drink, what we eat. It's a full-time job just battling that. It all boils down to oxidative stress and chronic inflammation.

TalkToMeGuy: I want to put a bookmark in water because we're going to come back to that. I want to ask about my old friend, as the audience well knows, my old friend, NAC. I'm a big fan of NAC.

One of the reasons that I'm a big fan of NAC is because I live in Northern California in wine country, which seems to be a colic when you're looking at it. Then you get up at five in the morning and you find guys in hazmat suits driving tractors around the fields. You're thinking, why is that guy wearing a hazmat suit driving a tractor? What's that about?

Dr. Joe Nieusma: Because he's probably spraying glyphosate.

TalkToMeGuy: Yeah, exactly. The fields have to look pretty. After that, he has to find the herbicides. I know biodynamic farmers who for decades, before glyphosate even existed, that's how long they've been growing perfect biodynamic wine, which is a level above organic. They're now finding Trace's amount of glyphosate in their wine.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: It's because the water table now has glyphosate in it. This back to NAC, I've taken NAC for a really long time every day

TalkToMeGuy: because I live in an agricultural area where who knows what they're going to spray or what could possibly be in the water. Is NAC doing enough for me to build up my glutathione levels that I should be pretty well off? I don't get sick. I'm pretty darn healthy. I'm a believer in NAC.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: First of all, I'll tell you anything is better than nothing. NAC is the absorbable form of glutathione. If you take glutathione, it won't get in. Inestetal cysteine has the right cofactors on that molecule to get into your cells and actually be added to your cellular defense. The fact that you don't get sick should tell you by listening to your body that you are doing something right. The person that wakes up every day with more aches and pains and parts than parts that don't hurt, they're still suffering from some sort of unrecognized toxicity.

Maybe your hips hurt, maybe your knees hurt, maybe your ankles hurt, maybe... And it could be from anything. Some of the most pervasive things in this day and age are side effects of the COVID vaccine. The COVID vaccine was a very active biopharmaceutical product that did lots of things. I actually have an article that predicted everything that would happen before that hit the market. Any of your readers that want that article, I'm happy to send it to you. You can read it. You don't have to take my word.

You can read it from the authors that say all this stuff is going to happen, ABC, D, E, and F. Now, with years of follow-up, you see that all that stuff did happen. So it's just toxic exposure. But then you also have things that... One of the other things that's poorly understood and even harder to treat is something like Lyme disease. You get bit by a tick somewhere. Six months later, you're feeling like crap and you don't know why. It's one of these insidious viruses or bacteria that find a place to hide in your body. It's like the herpes virus. These things are deep rooted and hidden in the body. And you need something that will go after these species, hunt them down and get rid of them.

Whether it's a spike protein from the COVID vaccine or whether it's the toxins from the Lyme disease or whatever it is. And that's an oxidative therapy. And there's lots of different ways you can do that. You can get oxidative therapy from hyperbaric oxygen from inhaling a low percentage of hydrogen peroxide from ozone therapy or my favorite, chlorine dioxide. So I have a specific chlorine dioxide that I talk about. That's the oxidative therapy. When you couple it with an antioxidative therapy, those two things are very, very useful in keeping people on this rock for as long as they want to be on this rock. Because one of them is an oxidative therapy to get after these toxins. The other one is an antioxidative therapy to put out the fire that you lit to get rid of all this stuff that's toxic in your world.

And the combination of those together really packs a one-two punch. And it creates a better quality of life and more than people than it doesn't when people are trying this strategy because of how toxic they have been. When people hit rock bottom and they decide, I don't want to live like this anymore. I'm sick of the pain. I'm sick of the chronic feelings.

I'm sick of having to battle this day in, day out and having it steal quality of life. You know, somehow, some way the universe gets them in touch with me. And I tell them about the benefit of the oxidative therapy coupled with the antioxidative therapy. And I give them recommendations and let them make up their own mind. You know, I'll give them literature. I'll say, this is what I think.

This is why it's good. Here is a 100 page reference with all kinds. Go down the rabbit hole as much as you want.

Go learn about it. And, you know, the two favorite things that I like is chlorine dioxide and carbon 60. The chlorine dioxide is the oxidative therapy.

The carbon 60 is the antioxidative therapy. And I don't try to push it on anybody. I say, I'll give you the literature.

You go read it, come back, ask me any questions. And what they find out is, oh, there's very cheap versions of both of these types of things on the internet. And that's when I tell them it's a buyer to wear market. And you have to be careful because there are shortlethins that are out there just to make a buck.

They'll sell you something and then disappear. There's no follow up. There's no support.

There's no, how are you feeling? Let's, you know, let's modulate how much you're using. And it's an interesting approach. And in the world of regulations and approvals from the FDA, I always tell people chlorine dioxide is not approved for personal use by the FDA. It's a water purification agent. Remember you bookmarked water.

So we'll come back to that. But it's a water purification agent that in water supplies, it is extremely good at eliminating all bacteria, viruses, mold, mildew and fungus. There's not one on this rock that's resistant to chlorine dioxide. Chlorine dioxide was actually used to clean up those government buildings when the wacko mailed anthrax to the government building chlorine dioxide.

The US military has been carrying chlorine dioxide in their arsenal to battle hemorrhagic fever viruses like Ebola, like Marburg virus for decades. So why the FDA doesn't approve it for personal use, I don't know, but by two leading reasons are one, it works. And two, the pharmaceutical industry doesn't make any money off of it. So those two reasons alone are enough for the government to try to lock that down.

TalkToMeGuy: And I would toss in and I would toss in because I just really must is that we cannot ever forget about the sound effect of the Halliburton suitcase opening filled with cash. So there is that of you know the influence.

I make it I'm going to make that a ringtone someday because it's such a sound in my mind of like that specific kind of metal click and it's just you can smell the cash. It's just it's a cash industry

Dr. Joe Nieusma: to wrap up this segment, you know glyphosate is pervasive. And you can find it just like the traces of pharmaceuticals with just about any, any sample you take. And you know the glyphosate is the industrial name, the residential name is round up same thing, you know, it's it's herbicide it's weed killer and the unlucky ones process that very very quickly and it turns into blood cancers. And the anesthetical cysteine would be very good at squelching that oxidative stress caused by that oxidative stress and chronic inflammation. And it's very rich so you know if you can't get into the C 60 which is like 170 times better than vitamin C vitamin C being a very good antioxidant just to give you the measuring point anesthetical cysteine is also very good on that scale it's it is excellent at squelching oxidative stress and inflammation. And if you can stay ahead of that, then your body doesn't age as fast, and that you get closer to that 125 years were supposedly allocated. And those years are where we spend them in better health, where we can do more things that we want to do we can do. You know the activities that we choose to do instead of, you know, my golden years suck, because I'm not doing anything I can't do anything. And, you know, it's like the last 20 years of your life that your doctor tells you to live a clean living. And, you know, you go to visit dad and the nursing home and say, Hey, these are those last 20 years, and you wonder why you did it first. Yeah.

TalkToMeGuy: My grandmother, the audience is so tired of hearing about my grandmother, but I have to drop her in. My grandmother lived to be 106. Wow, that's great. My grandmother was from the vintage of she died in the 70s. She came across America from the East Coast to Salt Lake City in a wagon. This was not a style choice. This was not an adventure camping event.

This was how old she was. Survival. Survival. And so they came from Malta, Michigan to Utah. And the bulk of her life, she ate organically without even knowing what that word was. Because they grew their own food.

They had their own cattle. She cooked every day. I don't know that she ever ate fast food in her entire life that I know of. Probably one of the grandkids took her out and said, Come on, Grandma, let's have some junk food.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: And it's probably said this is not this is that what is this?

TalkToMeGuy: This tastes terrible. And why is it in paper? She lived to be 106. And she lived vitally until she was in her until she was almost 100. And then she fell on her front steps, shoveling snow off her front steps at 95 or something, 97.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: So somebody wasn't fast enough to get over there and help her with that.

TalkToMeGuy: Right, to help her with that. And still proceeded, eventually got out of the hospital. It was like, I don't want to be in here. I don't like this. And still lived for another seven years vitally.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: Isn't that awesome? You know, without this product, the C 60 was actually invented by a guy up in the Colorado mountains, whose mother was was beginning to fall victim to early stage dementia. And, you know, he bred up on how he could help his mom with that and found that that study on carbon 60 that happened in, I think it was like 2012 ish. And that they were going to feed this carbon 60, which was a newly discovered moral conglomeration of 60 carbon atoms, feed it to lab rats and see what level became toxic. Not only did it never become toxic, but these rats extended their life by 90%.

And the people that did this study got tired of taking care of this population of rats and ended the study early instead of letting them live to see how far antioxidant activity at like on steroids would benefit the lifespan increase. And so that was the beginning of the C 60 craze. And when when Max made this first product, there was a handful of articles and now there's thousands of them. And it's really leading the way as far as a new way to take care of reactive oxen species. And, you know, one of the one of the design flaws in the human body is when the ATP is produced on the inner membrane of the mitochondria. It kicks out oxygen radicals. And those oxen radicals are what's really to blame for most of the diseases of the aged, you know, your body processes get less efficient, your DNA repair enzymes, your oxygen radical capture systems, they just they lose potency over time. And that's where you get those signs of aging that comes in, you know, your gray hairs or fine lines and wrinkles, you're adding on weight and all that type of thing.

If you can actually get in front of that inflammation and oxidative stress, then you can stave off those signs of aging. Max, the innovator on this product, he's 70 years old. His gray hair went away, his fine lines and wrinkles went away. He doesn't look a day over 40.

And, you know, multiple times a week, he's running full court basketball game against 20 somethings and beat them. So this is the his mother regained her mental capacities. The early onset dimension went away. And Max told me one day actually he said that his mother regained so much command of her mental capacities that her he she became irritating to him again at, you know, 60 years old.

So just like mothers can do you know you're always the little baby and you're going to be treated as such by mom. So, I mean, that's the history of that particular product. And it's he did that for his mom and his friends and family found out and you know there was about half a dozen of them that took a telomere test. And the telomere is the part of the cell which says how long it can divide and live.

And the length of the telomere tells you basically you give your chronological estimate of age. And they did that before and after taking C 60 for a while. And the testing company across the board said there must have been something wrong with the test.

We want to send you a new test and retest it because they didn't believe the results between the pre numbers and the post numbers because everybody's telomere length had increased significantly. And that's in and of itself is a remarkable result.

TalkToMeGuy: Yeah, just that course that statement right there is a whole show. Just the idea of because there's so much talk about telomeres. You're much better at the technical description, but I'll just say they're kind of the shoelaces of our DNA. That's how they're described.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: Great analogy. That is a great analogy. So, yeah, it's just how do you wrap all this stuff up? I mean, it's just I like to do it with a story. I mean, my 85 year old mother has been on both of those products for probably over seven years. She's maybe had a couple colds and she only gets those when the little little old ladies that she bowls with twice a week cough right in her face.

You know, so, you know, I manage those when they come up. But my mom had her first knee replacement before she was on C 60 and her second knee replacement after she was on C 60. And by her own admission, the second knee replacement, the recovery was faster, the pain and swelling was less, the use of narcotic drugs was less. And the physical therapy was much easier with the second knee when she was on carbon 60 on a daily basis.

And that it's a huge success story, in my opinion. I'm a big guy. Yeah, I'm Dutch. So they say the Dutchmen are in the top 10% of size for individuals.

Our family comes from the Friesland Islands in the North Sea above the Netherlands. And, you know, I played football and I played baseball and swam and, you know, I've got a right shoulder that's completely worn out from overhead ball sports. And if I forget to take C 60 for, you know, like a week or something, the aches and pains creep back in. But when I'm on C 60, they're gone. My hips don't hurt. My knees don't hurt. My ankles don't hurt. Still working on my shoulder.

You know, it's a work in progress. But it's the other thing that I noticed is in my field of vision, the little floaties, sometimes you can see when you blink your eyes, they're gone. They're gone almost immediately. And then the other thing I noticed is I don't need as much sleep when I wake up refreshed. And that's very cool. Because, you know, with what's going on, there's a lot of people that call me and I'm trying to help probably more people than I should be. And there's only so many hours in a day, you know, comes down to choices and priorities.

And it's just, it's something that I see as a value to make sure that those who find me get my attention so that I could possibly help them with whatever crosses they're bearing. You know what I mean, Richard? Yep. Yep, I do.

TalkToMeGuy: And what, now that we've found, this is not exactly jumping, but just a little sidestep. Now that we've, now that research has found microplastics in the lymphatic system of our brain, that's the set up question. That's the set up. How does C60 interact with microplastics? Does it? Can it help us with the dreaded microplastics?

Dr. Joe Nieusma: Maybe not the actual microplastics because the body has to find a way to get rid of that and the smaller they are, the more difficult they are to get rid of.

Right. That's your lymphatics and your immune system that has to do that. But it can help with the consequences. And the consequences of those microplastics can be anything from mechanical irritation to minor inflammation to major inflammation to chronic inflammation.

And it's all about the response. So you have these, these irritants in the body and your body is trying to get rid of them. And the way they do that, the body usually utilizes inflammation.

The body will purposely create active oxygen species to kill something that's not supposed to be there. Microplastics aren't alive. So all it's going to do is create all of these oxidative stress or all of these reactive oxygen species. And these reactive oxygen species are not going to have a target because the microplastic isn't alive. And then it's going to be released in that environment and cause massive inflammation. So the massive inflammation can be battled with the C60. But your body still has to deal with getting rid of those microplastics. And I'll tell you, that problem is going to get a lot worse before it gets better because everybody's been pumping the microplastics into all kinds of consumer products for decades. And now it's coming out that, hey, maybe that wasn't such a good idea.

So what we're going to see is a cause and effect curve that nobody can really predict the slope of it. You know, it's another DDT issue. Oh, that hurts bird eggs. Maybe we should stop.

They come back. Or maybe that's another 2,4-D issue. Oh, that caused cancer.

Maybe we shouldn't use that anymore. It's another dioxin issue where we can't use dioxins as insulators in the electric industry because it causes a whole purview of issues in humans. And it's just business getting ahead of the lens and doing something for a period of time before the jury is back in. Well, is what you're doing actually all that safe. And now we're in the middle of it again with the microplastics.

The best thing we can do is monitor the signs and symptoms of exposure, which is inflammation. And then we got to figure out a way. How do we get these things out?

How can we, because they're so small that filtering isn't going to get them. And they stick. So, you know, like ion exchange is going to get them. It's going to be a challenge to get these out of the water source. It's going to be a challenge to get these out of the body. And it's what's going to happen to make that better is you remove all the rest of the other toxins or some of all the other toxins.

So your body doesn't have so many problems to deal with. And then it points all of its resources at that problem that's left. Does that make sense? It's like you have 10 things that hurt you. If you remove two of them, you're better off. If you're nine of them, then that last one is really in the crosshairs.

TalkToMeGuy: Right. And I think also that microplastics, but again, this is a whole other show is, I think one of the issues we have with the, well, overall plastics in the environment, but also microplastics now in the body is microplastics or plastics are estrogen mucus. So I think it's got to be having some effect. Well, that's a whole long you would be able to extrapolate out of that. I bet.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: I mean, the plastics, the broad science class that you'll see the buzzword is a phthalate. Yeah. And they are classified as endocrine disruptors. So the 30,000 foot view is everything that's made out of plastic leeches bad stuff into our body that messes with your hormones. And when you mess with hormones and they get out of whack, it takes decades to get those hormones back in whack.

TalkToMeGuy: That's it. Mic drop. No, no, no, you can't leave me hanging there. Mic drop.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: No, I hate that. Like I said, it's yeah, it's another show. But I mean, it's just the hormones are so powerful. Yeah. That even in low, low doses, they have such profound effects. And the body has all of these, all of these mechanisms to keep them in check. It's like the hormones and the immune system. They're, they, they have the ability to destroy life as we know it, if they get out of balance and they are not corrected. And they're very difficult to correct because I mean, just look at the autoimmune diseases and what systems are affected most by autoimmune diseases. It's the hormones and it's the immune system. Yeah. It's, it's kind of like letting the bull into the audience at the rodeo. Yeah. Yeah.

TalkToMeGuy: That's a good one. How many use that? That's very good. Thank you. Yeah. And I would add to that list of microplastics, DDT 20, 240 dioxins. Perhaps it's, I hope this is a trend that's going away. Perhaps putting human sludge on farmland is a bad idea. Could we put that up for a vote?

Dr. Joe Nieusma: It depends on how it's treated. Okay. I mean, it's, it's, it's what the body doesn't use. But it, when you reduce the goo down to the sum of the individual parts, what's the nitrogen content?

What's the carbon content? What's the, and if you remove all of the toxins, obviously the pathogenic stuff is easy to kill. Otherwise we, because all of the water we have on this earth is created and it's, what do they say?

Any will gloss of water that's drank in New Orleans has been drunk seven times before. Yeah. Let's think about that. You know, and it's, it's, it's what we do takes for granted that our water supply is going to always be there and be clean and be ready for consumption. That's not the case. And until the whole world is acting by the same set of rules and not abusing the resources of mother nature.

The patient is still bleeding. And there's, there's ways for humanity to do better. And all of these situations, all of these problems that you mentioned are opportunities to do better. But in order for that to happen. The humans in the mix have to communicate and want to work together and be more friendly than foe ish and realize that, you know, right now we can't get in a spaceship and go to some other planet. We better take better care of the one we're on.

TalkToMeGuy: Yeah, we can't just, it's like a bad relationship. You can't sometimes you can't know that was a bad metaphor. You just can't trash the place like wild dogs and I'm speaking badly about dogs. When I say that I trust dogs to be smarter than us because they are their pack animals. They know that the pack is important. They're not going to like, well wolves are even smarter. They're the smartest ones because

Dr. Joe Nieusma: they really understand the importance of pack. I don't know any animal that intentionally does something to hurt themselves. Yeah, except the human.

TalkToMeGuy: Yeah, we seem to go out of our way.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: Again and again and again and again.

TalkToMeGuy: Rinse and repeat. It's really shocking. Okay, I can only ask about another hour of questions, but we're not going to.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: Okay, you find out what people want to talk about and I'm happy to come back.

TalkToMeGuy: I've already got another hour.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: Yeah, if I if I don't know, I'm I know how to say I don't know or I'll get back to you on that or I'll have to do some research and make a different show.

TalkToMeGuy: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I guess this is the point at which I ask you where can people find out more about your work and where can they find out about actually working with you? Sure.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: I exist on my website. It's superior toxicology.com. And it's not a very good website and not very sophisticated, but you see what I do in the pharmaceutical world there. And you see you can find Dr. Joe for hope. And so if you want help getting off your drugs, you'll find that there. And superior toxicology.com. There's a contact form. You can fill that out.

Send me an email or if you're savvy enough, you can even find the cell phone number and I try to answer the phone every time it rings or I get back to you if you leave me a message. So happy to go into more depth with the oxidative therapy recording Dockside with the anti-oxidative therapy with C 60. C 60 actually comes from a different company. It's called livelongerlabs.com.

So if you just want to go out and order your own C 60, you can do that. I don't get anything from that. Once in a while they give me a free bottle of product. But I'm in no way manner or form connected with live longer labs except that I vet all of their science. So if you poke around on their website, you'll find me in a number of places. But to get me superior toxicology.com is the best way.

TalkToMeGuy: And is there a source or should we contact you directly to find out about the chlorine dioxide?

Dr. Joe Nieusma: Yeah, you send me an email or give me a call and I'll tell you all about that. And what I think is the best one and how to use it and guide you all along the way. Great. Okay.

TalkToMeGuy: And then someday we'll do a show about chlorine dioxide versus ozone, but we're not doing that now. Absolutely. They're both good in their own respects. That's what I thought. I thought so, but that's a whole longer conversation. That was, I hate to say, but I mean, that was fun. I have an odd sense of fun, but that was great. Thank you, Joe. I knew from studying you that it was going to be a robust conversation and it really was.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: And I know this audience is... What's your readers say? Yeah.

TalkToMeGuy: Well, the listeners are really, they've gone nuts. We have a chat room that I'm in and they're like, wow, great. Holy bad words. Minnell. Yep. That's what I thought.

Dr. Joe Nieusma: Well, if you can talk to me, I'm happy to talk to them.

TalkToMeGuy: Great. Thanks again and everybody have a great rest of the week and we'll talk to you next week. Bye-bye.